(Reality) Check, Please: Why the Restaurant Tax Analogy Doesn’t Work

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By Jeff Berndt

There’s an analogy about the nation’s tax structure that involves several people who make different amounts of money splitting the check at a restaurant. The analogy purports to explain why a progressive tax structure is unfair. It tries to convince us that a tax break that sends 90% of benefits to the top 10% of income earners is perfectly fair. And it seems to make a lot of sense. Listen to the analogy without thinking about it much, and you’ll probably be okay with tax breaks for the wealthiest people in the world. The problem is, the analogy is completely false.

Source: Wikimedia Commons

Here's an Amusing Video of a Guy Repeating this Dishonest Analogy

Here’s the Analogy

Suppose a group of ten people all gathered together at a restaurant every week for dinner. Suppose further that they had decided that they would split the check according to their incomes, with the person who made the most money paying the most, and the person who made the least money paying the least. To make the math simple, we’ll assume that every week, the dinner bill for the ten people comes out to an even hundred dollars. The people split the check like so:

--the first four, with the lowest incomes, paid nothing;
--the fifth paid $1;
--the sixth paid $3;
--the seventh paid $7;
--the eighth paid $12;
--the ninth paid $18;
--the tenth person, with the biggest income, paid $59

They continued in this arrangement for many weeks, until one day, the restaurant manager visited their table to deliver the check himself. He told his ten guests, “You folks have been great customers, and we appreciate your continued patronage. To show our appreciation, I’m going to knock $20 off the price of your meal. I’ve already worked out your individual payments, according to your original agreement.”

The payments worked out like this:

--as before, the first four people paid nothing;
--the fifth person now paid nothing instead of paying $1;
--the sixth person now paid $2 instead of $3;
--the seventh paid $5 instead of $7;
--the eighth paid $9 instead of $12;
--the ninth paid $12 instead of $18;
--leaving the tenth with a bill of $52 instead $59

Every person was better off than before, but after leaving the restaurant, they all started comparing their savings.

“Hang on a sec,” says Number 6, “I only got a buck out of the $20 reduction, and he got $7!”

“Hey, you’re right!” says Number 5. “Why should Number Ten get seven times what we got?”

“Yeah, I’m with you guys,” says Number 7. “Number Ten got more than double what I got.”

And One through Four chime in, “And we didn’t get anything at all! No fair!”

To make his dining companions feel better, Number Ten divides his $7 savings amongst the group, leaving each person (except Number Ten!) with $0.70 more of refund money.

The following week, Number Ten didn’t show up to the dinner group. The remaining nine people sat down to dinner as usual. But when the check came, they discovered that they were now $52 shy of paying their $80 bill.

And that, friends, is why the wealthiest taxpayers benefit the most from a tax cut: they pay the most in taxes. Tax them too much, punish their success, redistribute their wealth, and they just may not show up at the table anymore.

Seems to Make Sense, Doesn’t It?

After reading this little story, I bet you’re all indignant that anyone would see anything wrong with a tax cut that benefits the rich more than it benefits the poor. The poorest folks don’t pay taxes in the first place, so why should they get money when there’s a refund? To get a refund, you had to have paid something in the first place, right? Right. And if you pay ten dollars and someone else pays a hundred dollars, and you both get 10% back, it’s only right that you get a dollar, and the other guy gets ten, right? Right.

If America really worked like that imaginary restaurant where the bill always comes out to an even hundred dollars and billionaires sit down to eat once a week with unskilled day-laborers, it would be perfectly just for Number Ten to get $7 when Number Five gets only $1. But this analogy depends on many unspoken assumptions that are not true in the real world.

Assumption #1: All the People are Eating the Same Meal

Since the analogy purports to be only about our tax system (and by association, what we all get for our tax dollars), we’re assuming that all ten people are getting the same meal. In the real world, you’d be a fool or else deliberately obtuse to assert that the wealthy and the poor enjoy comparable lifestyles, but we’re not talking about things like goods and services that we get in exchange for our money (like a new Cadillac as opposed to a used Chevy). The analogy is more about the differences between the rich and the poor in America, and how the mere fact of being one or the other impacts your life in ways that most of us never even consider.

The meal represents things like Defense, Social Security, the Interstate Highway System, the National Parks, farm subsidies, Food and Drug Administration, Federal Aviation Administration, Federal Bureau of Investigation, and so on. But it also represents—and this is very important to understand—the quiet little differences between the rich and the poor in America. Yes, it’s about what the government uses our tax money to do for us, but it’s also about what the rich get simply by being wealthy—not what they get when they spend their wealth, understand, but what they get merely for having it. These differences are rarely talked about, difficult to measure, and by accident or by design, many of them are self-perpetuating.

Assumption #2: All the People are Ordering From the Same Menu

The analogy assumes that the bottom four people have all the same options available to them as the top person has. As mentioned, this is not about being able to afford luxuries; this is about options available to a person in our society. Take a look at public schools, for example. (No, this isn’t going to become an argument for or against public schools; I’m using them only as an example.) They’re meant to be giving the same quality of education to everyone who attends them, right? But they don’t. Whether you love public education or hate it, it remains a fact that poor inner-city and rural districts have to make do with less, because they are funded by taxes raised from the residents of those districts. Wealthy suburban districts, in contrast, have state-of-the art (or at least, adequate) facilities, plenty of (or at least enough) materials for each student, and attract the best teachers because they pay higher salaries. How do you get your kids into one of those wealthy suburban school districts? You have to live there. How? Buy a house there. How? Well, for the most part, you can’t.

Of course a person with a below-average income can’t afford to buy a five-bedroom home in, say, Grosse Pointe Shores, Michigan. It’s too expensive. Maybe he could afford a two-bedroom home in Grosse Pointe Shores, but that point is moot: there aren’t any. Those wealthy suburbs don’t generally approve development plans that include housing that people of modest means can afford. Further, it’s actually against the zoning ordinances to build a modest home that a person with a modest income could afford. The poor are being systematically denied access to the level of education that the wealthy take for granted. This is just one example.

In a more accurate analogy, the bottom half of the group would have a certain number of choices, and each customer up the economic ladder would have a progressively wider array of menu options.

Assumption #3: All the People are Eating at the Same Table

In the restaurant analogy, it’s assumed that since the ten diners are sharing a check that they’re sitting at the same table. But in the real United States, billionaires do not usually dine with day laborers. As mentioned above, they do not live next door to each other. For the most part, they don’t even live in the same towns.

A wealthy suburb can usually prevent a dirty incinerator or power plant or chemical factory from being built nearby, even if the thing is necessary to the greater metropolitan area. (This is often referred to as NIMBY, or, Not In My Back Yard.) But poorer areas are less able to prevent such facilities from being built in their collective backyard, and when built, those facilities become a mixed blessing at best. Perhaps they provide jobs for the nearby residents (hazardous, unhealthy jobs, to be sure, but jobs), but they also have a negative effect on public health and they drive down property values. Thus, even if a poor person manages to save enough money to buy his way into a cleaner neighborhood, his home will likely be worth less than when he bought it (this is even more true thanks to the housing crisis), and moving will be a less than viable option, even if he’s never missed a mortgage payment.

If the restaurant analogy matched the real world more closely, the wealthiest diner would have a great table near a window, perhaps with a strolling violinist making the rounds every now and again, while the poorest diners would have seats by the restrooms, next to the kitchen, near the bar or in some other high-traffic area. Their tables would be crowded together, and their chairs would get bumped every now and again as someone squeezed past. Perhaps they’d be seated right under the air vent, and would have to deal with a continual flow of frigid or overheated air, depending on the season. They can ask to move to a better table, but the maitre d’ knows that they’re not lucrative customers, so no table will be forthcoming.

Assumption #4: All the People get the Same Quality of Food

Even if you allow for the ten diners in the analogy to be ordering different selections from the menu, the analogy assumes that the food is all going to be cooked to the same standard of quality. If Number Ten orders the same chips and salsa appetizer, burger and fries entrée, and tiramisu dessert as Number Three, those two meals will be as alike as possible in Analogy World. But we don’t live there.

Even the water that comes out of the tap in your house will have a different level of quality, depending on whether you’re wealthy (and live in a wealthy community) or not (and live in a less than wealthy area). The Environmental Protection Agency is meant to keep people and corporations from polluting the country’s groundwater, but alas, the EPA doesn’t protect poor rural citizens with the same zeal as it does wealthy suburban citizens. Many of us know about Pacific Gas and Electric’s deliberately negligent pollution of a rural water table from the movie Erin Brockovich. That story has a happy ending, but there are many others which haven’t yet ended. You would think that the EPA would be all over a corporation that taints the drinking water of American citizens. If those citizens live in a wealthy suburb…well, chances are the water wouldn’t be polluted there in the first place. NIMBY, remember? And the rural poor don’t have much political clout.

The same is true of poor urban neighborhoods, which are much more likely to be downwind of a pollution-belching power plant or factory. Sure, the factory or power plant provides jobs, but it also provides asthma, emphysema, higher concentrations of heavy metals, heightened allergy symptoms, and so on. In the real world, the rich and the poor don’t even get the same quality of air, let alone the same quality of food or water.

A more accurate analogy would mention that the wealthiest member of the supper club would be certain to get an unadulterated meal, entirely free of foreign matter. The folks on the bottom end of the scale, on the other hand, would be eating food that had stuff other than food in it, from insect parts or human hair to trace amounts of lead or other toxic chemicals, up to and including to dioxin. And we haven’t even talked about the quality of service yet.

Assumption #5: All the People get the Same Level of Service

In the Analogy Café, we tacitly assume that when any of the diners wants a refill on their cup of coffee, they get it. If a diner orders a burger, he will get a burger. If he specifies a cheeseburger, medium-well, his burger will have a slice of cheddar on it and be medium-well done when it arrives at the table. It will arrive hot, and if the diner has a problem with the meal, he can have it fixed at no extra charge (like you can at a real restaurant). The server will make suggestions about which wine or which side dish will go well with the entrée, and may even bring a dessert cart around (depending on how snooty the restaurant is). But that’s not how things work in the real U.S. of A.

We pride ourselves on being a land where everyone is assumed to be equal under the law, but that’s not how we get treated in practice, by the government, or by society in general. But we’re also talking about what we get for out tax dollars, so let’s concentrate for a moment on how the government treats wealthy people differently from poor ones.

A great example of this kind of different treatment of the wealthy and the not-so-wealthy is in food services. I’ve talked about this double-standard in other articles, so I’ll sum up here: a wealthy corporation can sell tainted food that kills people, and be allowed to continue selling food, but an independent entrepreneur who tries to set up a business that delivers wholesome, fresh, locally-grown produce to its customers (and has never even given anyone a case of the runs, let alone caused a death) will get shut down by a government agency. Yes, in the USA, the wealthy can (accidentally, to be sure, but still) kill several people in the course of selling food and still be allowed to continue selling food, while the less-wealthy, who have never even made someone sick in the course of selling food will be stopped from selling food (presumably as a preventive measure?).

Corporations are also able to get away with polluting, and there’s not much someone who lives downstream can do about it. A wealthy citizen can move with relative ease, or hire an attorney to defend his property rights. A poor citizen (who may already have to decide between eating and heating) can’t hire the attorney unless he can convince one to work pro-bono, or for a percentage of any judgment won in court. If the poor citizen can get an attorney to take his case, or if he files the proper legal documents on his own, he will then face the possibility of a SLAPP (Strategic Lawsuit Against Public Participation) suit. These are filed by corporations against citizens who try to assert their rights to clean air, clean water, and so forth (thus making it harder for the corporation to continue polluting or otherwise doing whatever it wants to do). The SLAPP suit takes up the citizen’s time and money, forces him to take time off from work (often unpaid) for court appearances, and otherwise makes his life as inconvenient as possible. Then the Corporation says, “Hey, Mr. Citizen, we’ll drop our frivolous suit against you if you’ll drop your serious one against us. Or you can keep on with your suit, and we’ll ruin you with legal rigmarole. We can afford this fight. Can you?”

The wealthy can figuratively wall themselves off in suburbs with zoning laws to prevent affordable homes from even being built there, and can literally wall themselves off in gated communities, whereas the rest of us must suffer salespeople and evangelists and even the FBI to wander around our neighborhoods and put us under warrantless surveillance. No problem, you might say, but the US 9th circuit court has ruled that if your car is parked in your driveway, and there is no barrier between your driveway and the rest of the world, then the FBI does not need a warrant to put a tracking device on your car. Think about that for a moment. Who is likely to have a barrier between their property and the rest of the world? Not you and me, that’s certain. No, it’s the wealthiest people who build fences around their estates. If you’re not a homeowner, forget about privacy; your car will be parked on a semi-public lot. There is no “reasonable expectation of privacy” (in the 9th Circuit’s words) in a parking lot. Never mind that most reasonable people in the USA do not expect to have their every movement followed by a government agency. In certain other countries, at certain other times in history, perhaps. But not in the modern United States. There are other, more subtle, ways the government discriminates against the poor. One of them is in the way a poor person is blocked from going into business for himself.

I’ve already mentioned the case of a regular citizen of middling income whose food delivery startup was preemptively shut down, but there are other, more widely applicable differences. A higher-income person usually has a college degree, and their job usually involves paperwork, data, and documentation in some way rather than physically building or repairing objects and charging for those goods and services. When a high-income-earner loses a job, he can (relatively) easily set up as a consultant, providing to all comers whatever service he once provided for his employer, and charging a fee for service rather than drawing a salary. Since his work is such that it can be performed nearly anywhere without anybody noticing or caring, he can easily run his new enterprise from his home, without renting a storefront, furnishing it as an office, and driving to it every morning to do his work. A lower-income-earner, on the other hand, is usually involved in providing a different kind of service, like bringing food to tables at a restaurant, for example, or cutting hair, or building furniture to be sold in a store. If a hair stylist, say, gets laid off from his job at a Fantastic Sam’s, he cannot legally set up shop as an independent barber at his home.

Even if he owns his home and has all of the facilities required by the health code in it, owns a barber chair and other necessary equipment, and is willing to have people come into his living room to have their hair cut, he is not allowed to run a barber shop from his home. He must rent a storefront in an area zoned commercial (an expense the higher-income-earner does not have), must travel there to conduct business (another expense the higher-income-earner does not have), and must pay these expenses whether or not anyone comes to have their hair cut. This is very important: even if he owns his home, the tradesman may not use his home as a place of business without breaking the law. And you can forget about the independent woodworker meeting a customer at a coffee shop to conduct a sale, as independent high-income-earners often do.

Finally, many kinds of entrepreneurship are actively suppressed by the government. The folks who wash car windows on street corners, for example, are treated as criminals rather than people performing a service in the hope of a tip. The same is true of buskers (street performers). Oh, they can play their music, juggle their beanbags, or whatever, but if they put out a tip jar, dun dun duuuuun: they’re criminals. Yes, it’s legal to play music on the sidewalk, but it’s illegal if you make an unspoken request for a bit of coin from folks who enjoy your performance.

If we want the Analogy Café to more accurately reflect American society, the bottom four or five earners would routinely get food they didn’t order, or food that was not prepared to order. They would wait forever to get a refill in their coffee cups, they would have hot soup spilt on them without apology, and their meals would often arrive at the table ice-cold. If they were to complain about the coldness of their meal, they might, maybe, get their meal re-heated in a microwave. If they were to try to do something on their own to heat up their meal (hold it over the candle on the table, perhaps) they’d be kicked out of the restaurant. The top earner, on the other hand, would often get little extras—a complimentary glass of wine, perhaps, or free dessert. If his order were botched in some way, the meal would probably be comped entirely. If he happens to have forgotten his wallet, no problem. The manager will happily extend credit (interest free!) until Diner Number Ten can return at his own convenience with payment.

Assumption #6: Nobody is Leaving a Tip

In the restaurant analogy, the only money mentioned is the money on the bill--that is, the money due for the food and drinks. No mention is made of any gratuity. This is actually the most dishonest part of the analogy. Consider: as you may know, when you have dinner at a restaurant (at least in the US), it is customary to leave a tip of between 15% and 20% of the bill, depending on how happy you are with the service. And as we all ought to know, the income tax is not the only tax Americans pay. We also pay a national tax on gasoline, which is an excise tax. It doesn't matter how much you make, you pay the gas tax at the same rate per gallon (which means the least wealthy pay the greatest percentage of their income). There are also the Social Security tax, which is only paid on the first $100K or so earned, and the Medicare tax, which is paid at the same rate regardless of income. Then there are corporate taxes, which even conservatives agree get passed on to the end consumer. The bottom five diners aren't a bunch of deadbeat freeloaders, as the analogy would have us believe. They are contributing.

For the analogy to be more honest, it needs to point out that all of the diners, regardless of how much of the bill they pay, regardless of their income level, kick in about two or three bucks for a tip. Further, we need to point out that they're still kicking in the same two or three bucks even though the actual bill is $20 less than it used to be.

Punishing Success? How About we Stop Rewarding Failure?

The main argument against a progressive tax system is this: progressive taxes punish success. (They don’t, really, but that’s the argument.) It’s really hard to listen to such an argument without thinking of the many many ways that in the top income brackets, failure is rewarded. We can’t talk about the difference between the rich and the poor without discussing the different treatment the two groups get when they lose a job. It’s true that when the average worker loses his job due to lack of work, he can apply for unemployment (which will give him a small income to cover his bills while he searches for another job). But if he loses his job because of bad performance (is “dismissed with cause”), he can forget about any help from the state. What’s more, he’ll have a heck of a time trying to get a new job. Compare this to what happens when one of our top earners gets ‘dismissed with cause.’ You all know what happens when a CEO runs a company into the ground, causes the stock price to drop, and makes necessary hundreds of layoffs, right? He loses his job, sure, but he also gets maybe a year’s severance pay, and sometimes gets a seven-figure (or more!) lump sum payment. I suppose this is meant to be a punishment for poor job performance? Let me put this in a bit of perspective: if a minimum-wage janitor who did a terrible job cleaning the building were to be given the same treatment when he was fired (adjusted proportionally for the difference in pay) he’d get a $296.00 check from his former employer once a week for the next two years, in addition to a lump-sum payment of about $15,000. And all of this would be for doing his job so badly that the company would rather have someone else doing it. Pretty harsh, right? Heck, if that’s what happens when someone fails at their job, why the heck would anyone even try to succeed?

So the next time somebody pulls out the Restaurant Analogy to justify a tax cut for the top income earners, or to support an argument for a flat tax, or otherwise imply that the poor get a free ride and should get off their lazy butts and just stop being poor, you’ll be more able to explain why they’re wrong.

Freakonomics: A Rogue Economist Explores the Hidden Side of Everything (P.S.)
A look at cause-and-effect from an economist's point of view.
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Super Freakonomics: Global Cooling, Patriotic Prostitutes, and Why Suicide Bombers Should Buy Life Insurance
Haven't read this sequel yet, but I look forward to doing so.
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The Tipping Point: How Little Things Can Make a Big Difference
An examination of causes, effects, and unintended consequences.
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Comments

lmmartin profile image

lmmartin Level 6 Commenter 18 months ago

Even before those folks got to the restaurant, there are histories at work creating an unequal situation. The whole attitude so popular today is, "if I can do so can you" which is based on the old lie "all men are created equal." They are not, never have been and likely never will be. There are very few who work their way out of the housing projects, welfare, shitty schools, etc, and when they can not, we point at them as though they were deficient somehow. We point at those that do make it as proof the system isn't rigged. It is. And it must be difficult to turn out a loser and slacker when your Dad's old money, and even if you're a worse than middling student, old Harvard will push you forward out of respect for a legacy. No, life is not fair, and neither is taxation. Boo-hoo. Great hub. Thoroughly enjoyed it and hope you get a million reads. Lynda

Rob 18 months ago

Part of the problem I see in this essay is that you're beginning with a false analogy, that what is "fair" in tax law is going to be "fair" in real world examples.

The bottom line is that, yes, the wealthy have many advantages over their less wealthy neighbors. Those in the suburbs have the advantages of security, safety, and protection compared to their counterparts in the city. Retailers treat people differently (not that they should bt they often do) and yes, schools vary wildly based on area (though in Michigan thanks to Proposal A, the operating budget for staffing is supposed to be uniform throughout the state, while facility construction and 'rennovation' can come from bond issuse.)

I also think you overstate the ability of a middling professional to run his own business. My father was out of work for 2 years without success becoming a "stay at home consultant".

But all that said, the question remains "what would be fair"? At the moment, while the wealthy do enjoy privledges of the station, is it 'fair' to simply tax them into the middle class? Should we have a system where because their lives are so good, that paying 59% of the tax burden isn't enough? They need to pay 75%? 80%? 90%? At what point is it finally "fair" that the rich have paid their debt back to society? What is the "Price" of security and safety afforded a life in the suburbs? And, by corollary, how many people should live exempt from taxes all together?

I can't argue that even being in the middle class has its privledges, but I do disagree as to what a 'fair' tax policy would be. I do agree that there is merit to "what you can bear" when it comes to tax liability, but I'm also not overly anxious to continue to squeeze the rich to pay the bills, mostly because as we squeeze the rich and find too little money, the definition of rich always creaps downwards.....

Jeff Berndt profile image

Jeff Berndt Hub Author 18 months ago

Lynda, thank you for the kind words. Praise from a writer of your caliber is praise indeed. I'll be riding this high for days. :)

Rob, that's exactly my point: the restaurant analogy is a false one, for the reasons listed and I'm sure for others I haven't. The unanswered question, "What would be fair, then?" is left unanswered because, frankly, I don't know the answer. But I do know that during the 1950s, top earners (earning 400K or more) did in fact pay around 90% of their earned income (not counting deductions and exemptions and such), and it doesn't seem to have put much of a damper on economic expansion.

The current top tax rate is a mere 35%, but somehow many conservatives assert that this comparatively low tax rate is guaranteed to create an economic collapse. Further, the current economic crisis comes after a historic across-the-board tax cut. The idea that high taxes on the highest earners automatically hurts economic growth, and that cutting taxes automatically benefits growth, doesn't hold up when you look at the data.

The definition of "rich" may creep downward, but the definition of "poor" never changes.

HSchneider Level 6 Commenter 18 months ago

Right on Jeff. I never heard about that analogy and I'm glad I haven't. It's ridiculous. Besides the rich have the means to pay more and should. Whatever happened to the concept of noblesse oblige? The wealth disparity has exploded in the past 10 years and it's a national disgrace. We need to let the Bush tax cuts for the rich expire as President Obama is calling for. These tax cuts exacerbated this disparity hugely. Great job debunking this ridiculous analogy.

Jeff Berndt profile image

Jeff Berndt Hub Author 18 months ago

Hi, HSchneider. It is a ridiculous analogy, to be sure, and the gap between the richest (or highest earners) and everyone else has indeed grown sharply, while the gap in the tax burden has surprisingly shrunk. I don't get that at all. But when arguing for or against higher taxes for any segment of the population, it's important to do so with clarity and honesty. This analogy (deliberately?) ignores all the societal differences between the wealthy, the middle class, and the working poor: not just the stuff they can afford to buy, but the preferential treatment that they get (or don't) and the grief they have to (or don't have to) deal with simply because of being one or the other.

Bottom line, if you're earning more than $250K, and a tax increase (on only your earnings over and above $250K, remember!) will financially ruin you, you need to learn how to create and stick to a budget. Perhaps you could find someone who earns $50K or less who can show you how that works.

tom hellert profile image

tom hellert Level 7 Commenter 15 months ago

JB,

Interesting slant on it-

You and your lefty fool president tax the rich and guess hat happens

Jimmy carter Ii why would anything else happen? Obama- CarterII is goin to raise those "rich peoples taxes" and watch the return of the late 70's... Just like in the metaphor the rich folks will take their money and hide it somewhere instead of creating jobs and spending it on all the people they don't know or hang out with . So you jimmy carter and Barrack Insane Obama can take your spread the wealth liberalism and go somewhere that wants it say China or 1980's russia how about cuba- all happy countries....

enjoy your eutopia comrade..

th

Jeff Berndt profile image

Jeff Berndt Hub Author 15 months ago

Hi, Tom.

I can tell that you disagree with this article, but I can't tell from your comments exactly why; only that your disagreement is strong enough to call the president names.

China and Cuba aren't all that happy, but according to the Legatum Investment Group's 2010 prosperity study, the US is only the 10th most prosperous country in the world, behind Norway, Denmark, Finland, Australia, New Zealand, Sweden, Canada, Switzerland, and The Netherlands. They all have some form of national healthcare, and most of them have some form of education subsidy.

Why do you want to hold the US back?

tom hellert profile image

tom hellert Level 7 Commenter 15 months ago

What I don't like is that in 2 years he has added 4 trillion in NEW debt but Washington to bush was only 10 Trillion

projections are that his big spending will add 26 trillion over the next 8-10 years under BHO.HE HAS DONE NOTHING BUT BERADE AND TALK DOWN our country- SUPPOSEDLY HIS COUNTRY TOO- (THE USA). WHAT ELSE DON'T I LIKE

HE WANTS TO GIVE ENEMY COMBATANTS tRIALS LIKE YOU OR I WOULD GET AS BORN AMERICANS (sorry didn't mean to yell darn caps lock)

what else I know people hate to hear it... but he has not proven his place of Birth- I can- you can why can't he???

I DONT like his C'MOn in and suddenly become a citizen Cross the border illeagally Its Ok the US Govt will sue Arizona-how retarded is that I am not saying the last 30-40 years of the US Govt has really done great at the borders BUT at least none of them said c'mon in we won't send you back- WHAT ELSE

NASA a Muslim outreach what the F is that give me a break NASA a Muslim outreach how retarded is that jeff? unless there is a hidden muslim population on mars... that is a absolute waste of NASA.

ShALL I GO ON....jUST BECAUSE OTHER COUNTRIES HAVE SOCIALIZED MEDS DOES NOT MEAN ITS GOOD-You live in a border state like me-when I was in the hospiutal I met a ton of canadians COMING TO THE USA tO get treatment that they could have got in CaNADA but they paid their own $$ to get an operation sooner WHY JEFf whyt if socialized medicine is so great WHY??

I'll tell you they did not want to die waiting in CaNADA.... All/most those countries listed Do not have a REal military they are not burdened by the UN with being the worlds police force sure some of them send a 100 or 1000 troops to places to stop tyranny and the like but we all know when it hits rge fan when disaster strikes who is there to bail the rest of the world out??? WHO say it again- yes the USA is Who. Why can't those countries send aid like we do? theyre to busy paying for healthcare- and NOT THE WORLDS DEFENSE AND CHARITY....

SO WHY DO YOU WANT TO HOLD THE US BACK and send us down to mediocracy-(SP) why do you want my kids and grandkids and yours as well I would assume to be in debt to the chinesse and whoeverelse we have to borrow$ from....Why do you want the US to sink into mediocracy like your president Barry does?

WHY JEFF WHY?

Cheers

TH

Jeff Berndt profile image

Jeff Berndt Hub Author 15 months ago

You're entitled to your own opinion, Tom, but not your own facts. Stop making stuff up, and perhaps we can have a debate about the wisdom or folly of a given policy.

Mike 9 months ago

I came across your examination of this tax analogy and I have a few comments: I disagree with the idea that the meals are unequal. Taxes are used to pay for things for which we all benefit. Fire departments, schools, defense, roads, etc. In fact, your argument fails in one major way: the poor and those who pay less in taxes are more likely to use more government provided services (paid for by taxes that a fair amount of them do not pay). So, while not perfect, the analogy is pretty apt. However, if you see the world through a different lens, one that assumes that all income is the government's, and only it gets to decide how much one gets to keep, then I can see how this might not persuade you. If you feel that somehow, the rich had to have gotten that way by exploiting the poor or abusing the system, then you might feel that the rich can never, ever pay enough into the system. If you feel envious that others have more than you and that is only because they were lucky, not because they made better decisions or worked harder, then I can see how the analogy doesn't hold up to your scrutiny.

I was fortunate to be the son of a man who taught me the value of hard work and how to position my self to take advantage of an opportunity (hint, it involves postponing pleasure, planning for the future and, yes, more hard work). I was also fortunate to be born into a society that allowed me the freedom to pursue my dreams. I was also fortunate to be born smart and healthy. For all those things, I served in the military, I pay an ungodly amount in taxes, I give to charities and volunteer my time to help the less fortunate. My only complaint is that somehow, to the liberal mind, that still isn't enough. Somehow, I am still the mustache-twisting villain. That's where the anger comes from, not from paying wayyyyy more than our share of the tax revenue in this country, but from the idea that even this disproportionate amount of financial sacrifice just isn't enough.

The restaurant analogy is simple, yes. But the reality is even simpler: entitlements will bankrupt this country eventually. There is no feasible way that the government can spend as it has, even if it eventually taxes everybody every dime they make. So, they need to be fixed, and the debt needs to be paid down. Then, and only then, should they even consider raising taxes. You don't keep giving money to a heroin addict, even if they recycle the foil.

Jeff Berndt profile image

Jeff Berndt Hub Author 9 months ago

Hi, Mike, Thanks for stopping by and commenting. You're absolutely correct that tax revenue pays for services that we are all supposed to benefit from, like roads, schools, etc. However, in practice, those things disproportionately benefit those who are already wealthy and/or already have political clout.

A prime example of this phenomenon is the way the interstate highways in Flint, Michigan were routed through poorer neighborhoods. Poorer citizens were disproportionately "eminent domained" out of their homes, and the highways broke up the integrity of the remaining neighborhoods. People who used to be able to walk to a neighborhood food market now had an impassable obstacle between that market and their homes. Instead of a ten minute walk to the grocery store, a shopping trip now pretty much requires a car. This is just one small example of the way the wealthy are treated better than the not-wealthy in the US.

This has nothing to do with hard work or lack thereof--and it has nothing to do with assuming that all property belongs to the government, or envy, any of the other speculative motivations you listed. It's simple fact.

You seem to think that everybody who is less wealthy than you are must be lazy, stupid, selfish, or otherwise unworthy: the poor deserve to be poor. That's not always the case, and that can be hard to see from a position of relative prosperity. I think it's great that you served in the military and that you volunteer your time and money to help the less fortunate. Good for you. Nobody has accused you (or anybody else) of being a villain.

You're right that the government can't keep spending as it has been, but your priorities for cuts are skewed. What we ought to cut are subsidies for the already-wealthy, foreign aid to countries that do not support our policies or our values, and defense spending (which outstrips the next ten biggest defense spenders combined, most of whom are our close allies). Add to this the fact that we've been irresponsibly cutting taxes (which, by the way, are now the lowest that they've been since before WWII) while equally irresponsibly increasing spending and it's no wonder that we're having a budget crisis.

It's easy for prosperous people to blame the poor for their poverty, just as it's easy for poor folks to assume that the prosperous are lucky, exploitive, or dishonest. But neither of those simplistic views is intellectually honest.

rainwaterfan2 profile image

rainwaterfan2 3 months ago

I really enjoyed reading your article. I'm looking forward to a time when all people will be treated fairly. Sadly, I don't believe there is anyone around who can accomplish that feat.

Rosalie

Jeff Berndt profile image

Jeff Berndt Hub Author 3 months ago

Thanks, Rainwaterfan!

The problem with ensuring that everyone is treated "fairly" is that it's hard to figure out exactly what "fair" is, when you weigh all of the factors involved. One thing I do know is that very few people like to admit that they had help to achieve any level of wealth. The self-made millionaires never say "I could never have done it if I hadn't been born into a middle-class suburban family, went to good schools and had my parents' help to pay for college," because that would be admitting that they weren't entirely self-made.

rainwaterfan2 profile image

rainwaterfan2 3 months ago

That's probably an accurate observation, but in my humble opinion, I believe fairness can only be established when we as a society choose to "love our neighbors as we do ourselves" and adopt a more altruistic attitude toward our fellow man. I've heard it said somewhere (I forget where exactly) that the only way the whole group can win is when each member of that group compromises a bit for the good of the whole. This does not seem to be the current attitude of today's world.

rainwaterfan2 profile image

rainwaterfan2 3 months ago

Random thought: Maybe those diners should do a pot luck dinner instead? lol

wobble wobble 3 weeks ago

isnt this analogy about a tax cut? i think this has some truth, people get mad when rich get a larger tax return

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